Tatyana Zabolotnaya, a practicing psychotherapist in Madrid, says new, non-invasive methods of influencing the brain show better results than those already on the market, such as medication.
For more information on Tatyana’s treatment options, please call: +34 644 57 55 20
Interview with Tatyana Zabolotnaya below
Andrey: Today, February 14, it just so happens that Tatyana Zabolotnaya is here as our guest. Did I pronounce your last name correctly? Right. Excellent.
Tatyana, I have a question for you related to this special date, as you are undoubtedly a wonderful, beautiful girl. I don’t know what to do in this situation. People are congratulating me on February 14.
What do people usually do in this situation? The congratulations come from individuals with whom I have no intimate relationship. What do you recommend in this situation? How should I respond, and how should I feel about this? Here’s a psychological trick for you. I want to emphasize that the congratulations are coming from women.
Tatyana: Women, good. So, there’s nothing to be afraid of, but there are too many congratulations, and I can’t comprehend how to react. Should I respond with congratulations or stay silent? Staying silent feels impolite.
I agree, staying silent is not necessary. I believe you should first thank the person.
When people express their feelings, they are remembering us on such a wonderful day associated with love. I think you should thank the person; that’s the most important thing.
And you can share your own feelings. You shouldn’t be afraid to say that you love someone or appreciate someone. There’s no need to be afraid to express warm feelings toward others.
Also, don’t confuse infatuation with love. We can love our friends; we can love our parents. We can love women who are not our official partners.
But we can value a person because they might have been important to us at some point and helped us in some way. Makes sense. Good.
I will try to respond politely by saying… Thank you. I appreciate it. I’m just a bit confused this morning about how to handle this volume of congratulations.
I want to congratulate you on receiving so many greetings on such a special and important day. That’s wonderful. I’m surprised myself.
I didn’t expect it. I didn’t expect it, yes. We’ll get to that.
I should mention that those who are just joining, Tatyana is a professional psychotherapist. Am I correct? Yes, a psychologist and psychotherapist. A real doctor.
So, there are just psychologists, and then there are psychotherapists. Accordingly, we will be discussing… I want to touch on many topics. I’d like to address the important issue of trauma related to moving to another country.
For me, moving to Spain was a very traumatic experience, but we will get to that. Let’s start with a classic question. I invite everyone to subscribe, give a like, and write questions for Tatyana.
Tatyana is an extremely responsible specialist. She lost my interview invitation in spam, but later found it and patiently awaited my invitation. She is a truly reliable hero.
So, please write your questions in the comments, because I hope to invite Tatyana more often and ask her more questions. We have accumulated certain experiences that sometimes require professional psychological and, I would even sa,y psychiatric assistance. The traditional first question is, let’s make it a soft one.
Tatyana: How did you end up in Spain?
I arrived in Spain a very long time ago. I have been living in Spain for 23 years. After finishing school, I wanted a better life.
I dreamed throughout my childhood, while watching television, about getting to a country that seemed more colorful, more cheerful. Most importantly, it had opportunities, because, unfortunately, where I’m from, I did not see such opportunities for development; I didn’t see emotional, social, or economic abundance. And I always had this motivation to move somewhere to improve my quality of life.
After finishing school, I decided to move to Spain. My mother had already been here for two years. A classic situation.
My mother was working as a cleaner. I decided I was willing to work, adapt, strive, and pursue my dream. To find myself and develop myself.
And that’s how I ended up in Spain.
Andrey: I assume you moved from a cold place, let me guess, Belarus. You’re close, very close; I’m from the Chernihiv region.
Yes, but that’s Ukraine. Ukraine, Chernihiv region. Almost made it.
Andrey: Almost, yes. I get it. If you hadn’t said you’ve been in Spain for 20 years, I would have thought you finished school at 10.
Thank you very much. So, we made a bit of a mistake. Good.
I know you live in Madrid. Was choosing Madrid a decision made by your mother, a choice based on circumstances, or your own conscious choice? Did you live in various places in Spain before deciding that Madrid was the right one, where the money was? What influenced that decision?
It was by chance, as my mother ended up in Madrid by coincidence.
When they came here, they didn’t know where they were going. She happened to land in Madrid. Naturally, I came here to be with her, and I’m very grateful I ended up in Madrid.
Although I also had the opportunity to live for six years in the Valencian Community. So I had the experience of living in your region as well.
Andrey: Where, if it’s not a secret? I lived in Altea.
Altea, Albir. I lived in Altea for several years and in Albir for a few years. We spent some time in one place.
I also lived in Altea for a year. So someday we should get together and reminisce about the streets of Altea.
It’s a unique town.
I have mixed feelings about it since living there. But, by the way, as an author of a popular science article on longevity in Spain, I should cheer you up. You live in the longest-living place in Europe.
Women in the Madrid community live longer than anyone else in Europe. So you have a chance! The expected lifespan, that’s the official term, is 87 years.
Just like that. I’m glad!
Boys, of course, live shorter. But still, in Madrid, men have an expected lifespan of 83 years. Women, as always, live longer.
Yes. I’m working at a research company for hospitals here, specifically in cardiology.
We study the psychological and social differences that influence people’s cardiovascular health and the differences between men and women. Now, I’ll ask you a question. Since we’re having a great discussion.
Let me ask you, why do people in Madrid live longer than anyone else in Europe and Spain? What’s your guess?
My assumption will be based on my studies because I read a lot of literature and, as I mentioned, I’m part of a research company. It shows that bio-psycho-social factors are crucial for longevity and health.
And, of course, there is never a straightforward answer. Just eating broccoli won’t keep you well. You need to consider all three of these factors.
These are genetic factors that we naturally come into this world with. But it’s equally important to take social and psychological factors into account.
Factors affecting our quality of life matter too. This includes our lifestyle, how we engage in sports, our diets, and our social support. We all know it’s been proven that people with a pleasant, kind, supportive environment live much longer.
Psychological factors, too, are linked to our past and the society that surrounds us. Our psyche is shaped, whether positively or negatively, and this influences our health. And, of course, we cannot deny why people in larger cities tend to live much longer.
Though it sounds paradoxical, especially since we know that stress is much greater in big cities. However, it all depends on the quality of healthcare available.
When something happens to your health, you receive help here much faster. And, naturally, the level of care you get in a big city, in more advanced hospitals, differs greatly from what you might receive if you live in a small town.
Yes, somewhere in La Rioja or Extremadura. Exactly. Since I’m a journalist, I have to ask people.
I once rode on a bus, and tragically, a girl sitting next to me spoke English, so we struck up a conversation. It was in the suburbs of Barcelona. I asked her why people, both men and women, in Madrid live longer than anyone else. She simply replied that in the imperial capital, old money, old capital, and the highest salaries are concentrated.
In Madrid, you find the wealthiest families, most bureaucrats, and company executives. Therefore, these individuals, working in government or leading large Spanish companies, receive high salaries and experience minimal stress levels.
They feel secure about their futures and lead measured and well-planned lives, as the girl on the bus put it. Because they experience low stress levels, especially among women, who can, for instance, predict their career trajectory when entering public service for the next 20, 30, or even 50 years, they live relaxing lives, enjoy themselves, and benefit from wealth accumulated since the times of the conquistadors.
Moreover, they can afford to travel to resorts like Valencia or the Canary Islands because of their high salaries. So, that’s how Madrid residents have such a great, laid-back, non-stressful life.
As it turns out, they live the longest. Conversely, the shortest lifespans are often linked to income levels, as the people from Extremadura tend to live the shortest in Spain. For those who don’t know, that region is often likened to Usty-Jopinsk—a very rural area.
Well, it depends on perspective; that was the explanation given. We digressed, but if we go by your appearance, you look about 30. So move to Madrid, folks, and see for yourself.
People look incredible, just like Tatyana.
Tatyana: Thank you, Andrey. You see how everything gets confirmed.
Alright, moving on. We know you work at a hospital. What else? You didn’t immediately choose the profession of a psychotherapist after moving here.
Were there doubts? Did you search for yourself? How did you come to the decision to delve into the minds of others?
Yes, it was a long journey.
The search for myself and opportunities was crucial. Because, of course, when you arrive in a new country, as everyone knows, you don’t speak the language. You need to earn money and create opportunities to start learning, as education isn’t free.
It also requires time, money, and abilities to start studying. I initially worked as an intern. I had quite an experience.
Later, I transitioned to being a waitress. After mastering Spanish well—this happened quickly, within just two years—I managed to find a job at a real estate company selling apartments.
That wasn’t my dream job, but I still gained some experience in interacting with people. I also received training as an administrator and financial consultant. Then I transitioned to working at a financial company, assisting with property financing.
I began utilizing the opportunity to save money and create conditions for pursuing what I enjoyed learning.
When I first arrived in Spain, my favorite program was called “Redes,” hosted by the well-known Eduardo Punset. He was the first person to spread scientific information about psychology and neuropsychology.
I found it all so fascinating and complex, wanting to find answers to everything. This inspired me to pursue psychology. Like any of us, I looked for opportunities.
How do people become psychologists? They enroll in courses, study Gestalt therapy, or attend short or more comprehensive trainings. But I eventually decided I wanted a solid academic background and started studying at a university.
To become a psychotherapist here, one must study for four years in clinical psychology at the Faculty of Health and Medicine. Following that, two years of medical master’s accreditation follow.
Then you can become a psychotherapist. It was the most enjoyable experience for me, especially since psychology here is very fascinating.
It differs significantly from our psychology. Europe has invested many resources, and America has significantly advanced the sciences. There is a much better understanding of the brain, psychology, and psyche here.
Moreover, the focus is not just on resolving psychological issues but also on achieving wellness and leading functional, happy lives. I really appreciate this.
I’m practically an exhibit for you. I can be studied. I have numerous reasons for a psychotherapist’s attention.
I have indeed reached out to therapists here. I would love to talk about that someday.
But the most important thing is that the first thing the Spanish government did when I applied for refugee status in 2023 was to send me.
Cat or dog?
Tatyana: A dog. I have three dogs. They take turns attracting attention.
Got it. They must miss you. They could join the frame if needed.
We’ll gather likes! So, my therapist was a very serious woman.
She listened to me for an hour and concluded I posed no threat to the Spanish state. She indicated I needed regular sessions with a therapist. However, in Catalonia, they simply told me that they couldn’t find Spanish-speaking therapists for consultations, and I wanted them to locate an English-speaking one for me.
I wasn’t able to find a therapist in Catalonia. But when I was in Altea, I began seeing therapists there. We’ll discuss that separately because it’s a lengthy conversation.
Briefly put, the outcome was that instead of one antidepressant, I was prescribed two, and I don’t recall the second one’s name. My morning antidepressant is escitalopram, and the evening one starts with a “D.”
It seems that the side effect makes me want to go out partying rather than sleep.
So, I stopped taking it. But now I have two antidepressants.
Now I’m an antidepressant sommelier, I can choose what I want.
Yes, unfortunately, this is the fastest way to help someone who seeks psychological help in Spain. There’s a shortage of psychologists here, especially in public clinics.
There isn’t enough. We at the College of Psychologists are constantly trying to empower the Ministry of Health to increase the number of psychologists. We’re constantly trying to convey the importance of psychologists.
It seems to be getting through, but it’s certainly slow. We still see that it’s practically impossible to get an appointment with a public psychologist. And even if you do get an appointment, it’s 20-30 minutes, and they’ll see you today, and your next appointment will be in a couple of months.
So, if we know that appointments should initially be weekly, then we can move to every two weeks, but that’s not the case in the public system. And yet, it’s all very private. But there’s good news, Andrey.
The thing is, you can see a psychologist with insurance these days. Many insurance companies are offering to cover sessions. You know, Tatyana, excuse me, but back then… Well, we’re still getting into my story, but I’ll just return to you as a comment.
Back then, when my house burned down in Russia in 2022, I accidentally got stuck in Spain. Well, physically, I had nowhere to go back to, and that was, of course, a terrible tragedy for me. Then, in 2023, I looked for an English-speaking psychologist through Sanitos, using their insurance. I was looking for an English-speaking psychologist, because my English is good enough to talk about how I’m feeling, but you need to be able to speak Spanish to describe your feelings. It’s not even a B1 level; it’s a very advanced level. And so Sanitos gave me… Well, I mean, I never found a psychologist. Believe me, I’m persistent. I went to several of these clinics that work with Sanitos. I asked the insurance company’s support chat where I should go, and they still couldn’t help me.
I never found a therapist, and, well, let’s be honest, then, in 2023, I solved the alcohol issue. It’s just, you know, you can’t go into stores, I mean, a pharmacy, and ask for antidepressants; they won’t sell them to you, that’s it. So I solved the alcohol issue, and as a result… Because it’s a nervous system depressant, naturally, and that’s exactly how it works.
I was really stressed out, I mean, I was extremely stressed, but then life took its toll. On May 18th, 2023, I passed a kidney stone, and they prescribed Tromodol, which made it impossible for me to sleep; I wanted to sleep for 18-20 hours a day. And, by the way, I started drinking less because I was just sleeping all the time.
Well, that’s a whole other story. I have very interesting experiences with both paid and free psychological help in Spain. We can talk about that separately.
I want to get back to you because this interview is about you, not me. I actually have a lot to tell you, even in a private conversation. But tell me, up until that moment… You studied for a total of six years.
Probably more. I studied for nine years in total because I love studying, and I completed research papers during my postgraduate studies, and I continue to write, so I continue to study. I just love it.
Are you, like Larisa Starling, researching serial killers? No? No, I don’t research serial killers, no. Well, by the way, I also… Let me be honest with you. My daughter says she wants to be like you.
I mean, she wants to be a psychotherapist.
Oh, how wonderful.
Yes, she says… Well, she’s studying medicine now, and she says, “Dad,” I love poking around in people’s heads, understanding what’s going on there.
I say, “Well, thank God, at least I’m not a pathologist.” I mean, poking around in… Literally poking around. Yes, not literally poking around.
Tell me, have you ever had a private practice? Do you have a private practice, in addition to working at a public hospital, as I understand it? I work on a research team at a hospital. So, I have a private practice. I have a clinic consultation in a clinic in the center of Madrid.
And that’s where I conduct my consultations. And who with what…
This is a layman’s question, but nevertheless. You can come to you with any problems, watch this video, and find out.
We will provide your contact information, if you allow, in the description of this video. And you can come and get professional help from you. You can get professional help from me.
Most people, of course, come with depressive and anxiety disorders. The same goes for adaptation issues. And also for achieving certain life goals.
Even people simply want to achieve success, but they don’t know how and where to go, where to turn. They’re a bit stuck; they don’t know what their goals in life are. They lack motivation.
That is, I work with this as well. I specialize in using neurotechnology to treat psychological problems, which significantly accelerates the recovery of psychological health. This is precisely what is used only in top-tier clinics.
Transcranial neurostimulation. It’s non-invasive. This is, you could say, thanks to… This technique emerged because we learned how the brain works from all these top projects, in which thousands of millions of dollars were invested globally to understand how our brain works, when neuroscience emerged.
Thanks to this, we are developing similar models of psychological disorders and psychological problems, and thanks to this, new techniques are emerging that are less invasive than medications. Therefore, for example, transcranial stimulation shows, you could say, the same results, but is much more non-invasive than medications. We know that, for example, after three months of psychotherapy combined with transcranial stimulation for a month, a person no longer experiences depression after 12 weeks.
We all know how long people take depressants, especially the side effects. Even you mentioned it, right? One depressant, then a second one appears, and yet the symptoms persist, like, for example, sleep problems. I’ve become a very cheerful person. Yes, yes.
Well, for example, sleep problems, yes, well, that’s how it is.
New techniques are emerging that are less invasive than medications. Therefore, for example, transcranial stimulation shows, you could say, the same results, but is much less invasive than medications. We know that, for example, after three months of psychotherapy combined with transcranial stimulation for a month, after 12 weeks, a person is no longer depressed.
We all know how long people take depressants, especially the side effects. Even you mentioned it, right? One depressant, then a second one appears, and yet the symptoms persist, like, for example, sleep problems… No, I’ve become a very cheerful person. Well, for example, sleep problems, yeah, well, it’s not like… No, really, of course, I’m joking, I’ve pushed it all inside. I mean, how can I say it, I’m observing the same thing I observed before, only whereas I used to observe my depressive, chronic depression—I’d observe it, start to worry about it, to the point where I’d go for a walk at 2 a.m. because I couldn’t sleep, and I was super anxious, a very sensitive state. Now I kind of see that same condition, untreated, uncorrected, but I observe it from the outside, as if it were someone else. So, yeah, really, the problem was simply pushed inside.
But excuse me, this is kind of back to me, talking about myself, my beloved self. I don’t mind. Wait, don’t, otherwise I’ll compliment you on how smart you are, and intelligence, and intellect in general, are incredibly sexy.
Don’t give me that kind of compliment. Tell me this; I’ll just explain my question. You use a special cap with sensors that not only read brain function (an electrocardiogram is essentially recorded in real time), but you also have emitters that irradiate specific areas of the brain.
Specific areas are stimulated, with a gentle current, specific areas of the brain. There are specific protocols—I use Harvard protocols, for example—that explain where to place these electrodes and where a person should be stimulated for specific symptoms. So, if a person has a lot of obsessive thoughts, one area is stimulated.
If a person has sleep problems, another area is stimulated. If they have increased anxiety, a third area is stimulated. These are special protocols.
First, a person’s psychological state is assessed. We spend about 2-3 sessions on this to pinpoint the person’s specific problem. Then the protocol is launched.
For example, my protocol lasts 12 weeks. The person is stimulated twice a day. They stimulate their own brain.
I also stimulate them in the same way, giving them another device that stimulates the autonomic nervous system, in order to restore balance to the entire nervous system. Not just the central nervous system, but also the autonomic nervous system, which controls organs, breathing, heartbeat, and anxiety levels, is primarily related.
It also reduces inflammation in the body.
Tatiana, if you need a very well-fed guinea pig, I’m here. I’ll explain; I’m very interested.
Seriously, I became interested in this topic about 10 years ago when I learned that a classmate of mine at Lund University in Sweden was working on invasive brain research methods. He was torturing mice. He was a teaching researcher at the time, and he was using a brain-computer interface, meaning he was implanting these things directly into their brains.
And now, as far as I understand, Dima has a startup in Sweden. So, they’ve reached a more or less industrial level. I became interested in this topic back then, doing some calculations, which is why I actually understand what you’re talking about, and I would gladly offer myself as an experimental animal, a primate weighing almost 100 kilograms, which is exactly what I need to treat, because I have… I’ll keep that in mind.
Seriously, because, for example, no one has really solved my insomnia problem. So, I was prescribed a drug that’s not really a sleeping pill, but a substance that turns me into a vegetable—Zolafren. And it really does help me sleep well for 18 hours.
But even if I force myself to get up, the next day after taking Zolafren, I still drink gallons of coffee just to stay active. Functional during the day. If I don’t take it, I wake up several times a night, and my mind immediately starts racing—what to do, all this unfinished business, and so on.
But the distance, of course, has been our undoing; I’m not in Madrid, so it’s difficult. What you’re talking about is, of course, very interesting, because I believe you’re simply advancing science, and perhaps at some point, these psychotherapists who serve us here will move away from medication to non-invasive brain treatments. This is what we’d like to achieve in the future.
The thing is, let’s not kid anyone, pharmaceutical companies have a lot of influence globally, and yet it will be very difficult. But even despite this, the American FDR, which controls all medications, the Food and Drug Administration, even though it means a lot of money and power to them, still made it the number one recommendation for depression. They still introduced non-invasive transcranial stimulation, which I use because it has shown such tremendous results, and most importantly, it’s non-invasive. Because people simply develop so many more health problems when they use antidepressants for so long that, well, well… Well, I’ll tell you what, of course… Well, I mean, time is running out for us, but I’ll tell you what, for us… I’m shocked by the Spanish psychotherapists who prescribe for me. They’re so quick to throw around drugs in the Russian sense—well, let’s say, phenazepam, no problem, prigabalin, no problem—that is, they prescribe me substances that are considered narcotics in Russia, and it’s all because I say, “Prescribe me melatonin, valerian, I need to sleep, I don’t need your barbiturates and the like.”
They want to turn me into a vegetable. I say, “Guys, I need to work. I can’t…” They want to activate you as quickly as possible so you’re functional and happy, and they have these protocols because, as I say, they can’t offer anything else, unfortunately.
We would like and are striving to change this, because we know very well that the psychotherapy used here, particularly in Europe, which is based on scientific knowledge of psychology, is very, very effective, and people truly get rid of psychological problems in 3-4 months, and in most cases, they don’t need any medications at all. But there aren’t enough psychologists.
One minute left.
Could you tell me in a minute what your plans are for 2026?
I’d like to publish my research paper, but I can’t seem to get it published because I never have enough time. My research is very, very interesting and very useful for people struggling with adaptation. It’s a major contribution to the science of psychology and, equally important, to the lives of immigrants.
And continue to convey to people the importance of seeking help from psychologists, officially practicing psychologists, so as not to waste money or time, and to prevent psychological problems from becoming chronic.
Tatiana, you are wonderful in every way. Thank you so much.